Monday, February 18, 2008

Weekend What-if: The Aztecs beat the Spanish

And to think I was going to do one of these every weekend! This will be an occasional series (see previous editions here and here exploring counterfactuals or "what-ifs" -- imagining the rollout of history had a key event gone in another direction. Today's, possibly this month's what-if concerns the near-miss which allowed Spain an easy conquest of what could have been their most formidable foreign threat: the Aztec Empire.

Along most conventional measures, the Aztecs were the best prepared civilization to resist the European encroachment. They had a somewhat mature polity, a series of city-states united around a center in loose empires similar to the Greek Delian and Peloponnesian Leagues. However, in the Aztec case, these groups were united rather than opposed in the so-called "Triple Alliance".

Aztec culture centered on the great city of Tenochtitlan, a metropolis centered on an island amidst an artificial lake (the legend of its founding is enshrined in the Mexican flag today). The picture at right from the University of Wisconsin shows a spacious, designed urban center. This thriving community had between 200,000 and 400,000 people today -- larger than the conurbations of Anchorage, Alaska or Utica, New York. They had systems of mathematics and writing. Aztec warriors were fearsome fighters who earlier had served as mercenaries. Their atl-atl spear thrower was quicker to "reload" than primitive Spanish muskets while just as deadly. Atl-atl javelins could pierce metal armor.

If you're not familiar with the story, Aztec religion told that in the past their chief god Quetzalcoatl had been incarnated and walked among them. Someday, that incarnation who went by the name Topiltzin would return to lead them again. This may sound familiar. Topiltzin would be recognizable through his odd appearance: a beard, blue eyes, and pasty skin. To an Aztec who'd only met Caribbean and Mesoamerican peoples, this was a bizarre description, equivalent to modern people awaiting a savior with antenna, chitlin armor, and the ability to emit sparks.

So, what did the Spanish leader and butcher Hernan Cortez look like when he stumbled into the region with his men? That's right: pale skin, beard, blue eyes. It went downhill from there. The amoral Spaniard exploited the Aztecs' mystifying worshipfulness of their lightly armed force to kidnap and eventually kill the Aztec emperor Montezuma. A nighttime raid on the leaderless and rudderless Aztec capital resulted in a hard-fought Spanish victory.

Don't get me wrong...there were other reasons for Cortez's victory. Their introduction of smallpox killed over three million people, a toll raised by deaths from measles and other diseases. The alliance between Spain and the Aztecs' enemies such as the Totonac also closed the tactical edge, as did Spanish armor and cannon. Nor we can we discount their horses, which would have represented the first encounter Aztecs had with beasts of burden, whose knowledge of large animals had heretofore topped out at jaguars. However, it's the decapitation of Aztec leadership and subsequent unsurety of the population that sealed the deal.




So what if Cortez had manifestly not been an Aztec god? What if he had darker skin and eyes? How would his force of some couple thousand men have made out?

To their advantage, their edges in weaponry, allies, and disease would remain the same had Cortez not received immediate adulation. Nor is it unthinkable that he'd have gained access to the Aztec leader anyway, going off the example of his partner in genocide Francisco Pizarro, who managed to kill off the Incan leader further southward. But saying that the Spanish don't have an "easy in" to Aztec civilization, what then?

Well, a straight Spanish v Aztec battle would have been resolved in the Aztecs' favor. The Aztecs had a 300 to 1 advantage, and the gap in weapons technology wasn't nearly large enough to compensate for that. Even with their allies, the Spanish could expect to be outnumbered a good 10 to 1 by the most vicious fighters in the Americas at the time. We know, among other things, that the Aztec fighters had little trouble routing the Spanish bridgehead in Veracruz.

Say the Spanish are killed. Wiped out by the Aztecs. Now the Aztecs know about the Spanish, but the Spanish remain ignorant of the Aztecs' existence and their horde of gold. While those diseases are still working on the Aztecs, there will now be a greater measure of preparation when the Spanish return.

For the Spanish would return. The tide of European exploration and conquest broke across American shores from Tierra del Fuego to Newfoundland. The true question is this: would an Aztec civilization forewarned of Spain's arrival yet weakened by Spanish diseases, have put up enough of a fight?

The Aztecs would have been hampered by the religious lens through which they viewed the world, and one can imagine an accelerated series of sacrifice and ritual in reaction to the Spanish' arrival, rather than further fortification and training. There is little reason that the Aztecs would figure out that they were opposing a determined enemy who sought assimilation, if not extermination.

However, given the difficult terrain of Mesoamerica and the Spanish's general ignorance of indigenous culture and politics (something at which the French and British proved skilled), conquest of the region could have come at a high price. Given that Spain's window of conquest closed before European technological advantages produced rifles and the like, the Aztecs could conceivably have fought a war of attrition whose costs were beyond Spain's liking. Their style was more suited to guerrilla campaigns, and the Spanish long had greater interests in resource extraction in this locale than in colonization.

With a mature polity managing the war against Spain, the Aztecs could just maybe have waited until Spanish collapse at home. Assuredly, Spain would dominate the northern portion of modern-day Mexico, and likely a good part of Central America. A smaller rump state of Aztlàn (land of the Aztec) sandwiched between a larger English Belize and Spanish Mexico would have a shot after the wars of liberation.





Aztec animist beliefs would have poor chance of surviving the immersion in Catholicism, though the merger of state and church would not have been guaranteed in such a diverse society. For much of time, Aztlàn would retain an air of mystery and intrigue, the hemisphere's own Papua New Guinea. That uniqueness would make for an anthropologically and culturally fascinating contrast.

The subtraction of Aztlàn changes the divisions of the Spanish Empire, and thus the borders of their successor independent states (a map below is a theoretical approach to the area in modern times). A smaller and presumably weaker Mexico, deprived of Mexico City is even more subject to American whims. Texas's war of independence is yet more one-sided, and American domination of the Southwest is even more extensive. Pancho Villa is an unknown, and American troops enter World War One even less prepared, without the field experience gained from their pursuit of him.

The addition of an empowered indigenous ethnicity would severely alter the course of Central American history, though the process of economic and technological catch-up would leave it vulnerable to the same foreign meddling that the entire region experienced in the 20th century. A further divided Central America makes the Cold War "influence game" even worse on that region, and Aztlàn would likely alternate between vicious American-sponsored thugs and vicious Soviet-sponsored thugs.

The modern viewpoint of this part of the world is "Mexico and Central America", given their religious, linguistic, and historical common ties. Mexico of course has the largest economy and population, and thus the largest voice in the region. Without the large Mexico, Central America becomes less differentiated, and less an interest for American policy. Central America would be prone to enter South American orbit more, and the American focus would remain more strongly in the other hemisphere.




The Aztecs probably represented the best shot at aboriginal contest of European expansion. Given local antagonisms, it is doubtful that the Aztecs would lead a regional resistance to the Spanish incursion, but their strength in a fair fight would likely leave them outside the sphere of direct Spanish rule. A polity of the modern era rooted almost entirely in indigenous culture would not accrue most moral authority (one doesn't see such in Ethiopia or Thailand, also rare resistors to colonization), but would add variety to modern-day Latin America, and contribute to a de facto isolation of Mexico in its development from the Catholic Hispanic culture of Latin America.

89 comments:

RHM said...

This is a very interesting post, thank you. I live in the Caribbean (Dominican Republic) and the Tainos (indiginous people of the island) had a fascinating culture as well. Just not as fascinating as the Aztecs. It's interesting how the religion of the Aztecs precipitated their downfall. It sounds more and more familiar to me as I read the news.

Anonymous said...

I wonder what the world would be like if the aztec religion was more popular than Catholicisim?

Anonymous said...

Srry that was Jessica B above the cathlioc thing.

I mean would there be Aztec schools instead of Chathloic schools and churches? Or how many people would be left in the world if the Aztecs continued there sacrificed like, 50 people a week?

Anonymous said...

Mr. Anonymous
I don't agree although it is very interesting because:
What if The Spanish brought more people and that there was more diseases to harm the Aztecs. Also, if the Aztecs won the fight with Cortes, then the aztecs could study the weapons and be prepared for another attack That is why i disagree with this
Alex R. April 15th, 2008 1:58

Anonymous said...

This is a very interesting blog. I think that if the Aztecs fended off the spanish during their first visit there would be a more Mexican/ South Americans in modern day North America. People in Mexico wouldn't speak Spanish. But I believe Spain would have returned to the Aztec empire and won the second time around because the smallpox epedemic would have wiped out more of the population.
The Spanish's stronger weapons also contributed to Spain conquering the Aztecs. Horses and guns were much stronger than the Aztecs spears and war clubs. Spain also had amuch better battle strategy.


Zenon H.
Zdawg

Anonymous said...

Well, I think that this was very interesting and especially how you went back and imagined what would be different by just such small changes... I think that if Spain had been defeated and the Aztecs would have won, Mexico would be in a very different state. We may have seen changes in the way they run their government. They may have a differnt military system, and in the military system differnt weapon then we have today. We might see a difference in the religion, and economy. we would also see a differnce in the buildings, the buildings would look totally differnt, instead of skyscrapers and churches and houses we may have stone buildings still and temples and huts. The way the spanish live today would be different as well..they wouldnt be so in charge anymore. The Aztecs may soon be in charge of the whole country. They may affect other areas of the world as well, they may have passed their religion on to a person from another country and they would tell their people from their country and so on, many things in the world may be different the way they view things and how people just live. It is all a very interesting concept to think about.
-Taylor.L

Anonymous said...

I think that if the Aztecs would have beaten the Spanish that the would be prepared in the next battle and since they have so much technology to make a city on a swamp then maybe they could use that architectural technology in war and take over Spain

Kiandra C =) said...

This gives a lot of good information.My thoughts are if the aztecs didn't have the Gods that they had, Tenochitlan would not be the same as they were. They wouldent have let other people they didnt know well into Tenochitlan as early as they did. If the aztecs had'nt worked together to please their gods and have a good life, all the little tribes would have gotten attacked and they would'nt be able to fight, because they are so vulnerable. The spanish weapons were more efficient then all the Aztec weapons. The spanish had a bigger advatnage on winning fights because of the weapons and trainging that they had. On the other hand the Aztecs were not as organized as the spanish. A key point in the spanish conqest was thatthey had been able to get clsoe to Moctezuma. the aztecs were more worried about their religion thatnayhitng else, on the other hand the spanish was worried about religionand fighting for what they wanted. That itself showed courage and perseverence, so you knew that they would never give up.

A disease that the spanish had brought was smallpox. That wiped out some population but not all of it. That was another advantage that the spanish had.

The outcome was good for the spanish. WOOOOOT.
-Kiandra C

Anonymous said...

If the Aztecs had won, maybe then we would be living with a different religion. Maybe the same religion as the Aztecs, not Catholicsm because if Spain had not won, then they would not have been able to spread their religion. Although Mexico is pretty far away from other countries such as Canada, the Aztecs could have somehow influenced us as they are a strong community. Even though the Aztec civilization is gone,they could have defeated Spain and our lives and world would be much different.

-Joanne F

Anonymous said...

I think that Cortez's victory was a little unfair. The Aztecs had no idea that there were such thing of horses,or the gun like weapens and they if they had known about it at all there could have been a fair battle. The Aztecs could have prepared themselves a little better, and might have backed off when they heard they might have had diseases.Im sure the Aztecs had battles with other sets of people and they probaly assumed this one would be a battle like every other one.

Anonymous said...

Ps. Parrtyyy like a rock staarr
in the aztec worldd.
HEHHEE

Anonymous said...

i think this blog was very interesting. i think that if the Aztec whole army would have fought they would have won. I think that they should have attacked them instead of giving them gifts. If they would have put more of an effort into there army and developed better strategies and weapons the Spanish wouldn’t have had a chance at defeating the Aztec.
-Harrison F

Anonymous said...

I thought that it was very creative that someone like this person can put up what would happen when the Aztecs beat the Spanish. The only reason that I am curious about is if the Spanish didn't show up at all, would the Aztecs still live today? What comes in mind is that they would probably not because the global might not allow that to happen and there might be a great war.

Anonymous said...

I think this blog is interesting because its amazing how they made a city in a swamp. they will make a weapon that can wipe the spanish people.They wouldn't kill all of the spanish people and i wish that Aztec won the battle.And see how the world will change.


by jun ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Anonymous said...

I think if the Aztecs would had won the battle vs. the Spaniard, there is a probability the Aztec would off had taken over all America. We wouldn't have all numbers we would probably get until 20 as our maximum number we all believing in the Aztec religion. We could probably still do human sacrifice. The Americas would have the best architects in the whole world.

manny!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

this article is very interesting , alot of stuff could have changed if these things would have happened, another thing that i was thinking about was if the spanish inquisition had never happened and then the muslims went over to mexico instead.they could have conquered them instead. the spanish were also alot less giving when it came to other religions compared to the muslims.mexico could have ended up part muslim, or even all muslims, the aztecs might even have defeatd the muslims and then there would have been aztecs in mexico today instead of spanish people. another thing that i thought of was if the aztecs had never found tenochitlan and had gone somewhere else, then the spanish or muslims could have just found the place instead of having to conquer the axtecs. the spanish most likely would not ahve stayed there because of the location of the place. they wouldnt have thougth of the same things the aztecs had done to help make tenochitlan easier to live in. also the aztecs were very very religious so they moved to tenochhitlan becasue there god had told them to. but the spanish were not as religious so they probably wouldnt have had a god to tell them to build there,so they most likely would have just left the place and then mexico city wouldnt have been built over tenochitlan because tenochitlan never would have been there in the first place so mexico city would have been somewhere else.

sean .o

Anonymous said...

If the Aztecs actually won the war over the Spanish and held off their capital, whould the Aztecs come into are world and destroy are culture so almost all of are ancestors whould be sacroficed to the Aztecs God. then today instead of a catholic school it would be a Huitzilopochitli school and we would go to the stone temple every sundown. In other words would all the technology and all the culture all be destroyed so we were all aztecs, it would solve lots of problems like raceism, and wars. i think that event if they did win the battle of Tenochtitlan they wouldn't come to Europe or anywhere because:
1. they had ships that couldn't make it to Europe
2.event if they did they would be killed by the armys that were in Europe becasue when Spain brang forces they had to supply them with ships and food limiting the amount of forces they were aloud to bring. I think that if the Aztecs won the battle for Tenochtitlan then are world would be the same.
-Ryan.T

Anonymous said...

If the Aztecs had won, maybe most of Central America would use the language, culture, religion and traditions as the Aztecs, instead of the Spanish culture. Maybe Aztec culture would have spread up into North America. The Americas would be a lot different if the Aztecs had won, and proabably look a lot different, too. Becasue the Aztecs valued the military, maybe war would be a lot more common in the Americas. If the Spanish had lost, then we would see a lot more of the Aztec culture in the Americas, and we might even see things like temples and human sacrifices taking place everyday. Our lives would be a lot different if the Aztecs had won.

Andrea R.

Anonymous said...

I think this article was very interesting,it higlighted a great question that many of us students find ourselves asking.If the modern day mexico was still ruled by the Aztec,I think there would be a huge change in beliefs and world views that Mexicos society considers important today.Also,I like to s all the possible events that could happen if the Aztecs would of had victory over the Spanish.This articile was very well written,and I enjoyed it but I thought it was a bit hard to read.=]

-Breanna B.

Anonymous said...

I never thought about that before!
Well, I think alot of the things you pointed out were really interesting. If the Aztecs had won, many things would be different, and personally I thought you did a good job naming them. I had to read this a couple times to really get it though, hahaha.
I agree with the things you said and I don't think I could write anything better!

.Bri H -//♥

Anonymous said...

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jun ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Anonymous said...

If the Aztecs didn’t view the white men as gods, they probably wouldn’t have let them into Tenochitlan so easily. The Spanish wouldn’t have the advantage of the Aztecs being stunned by their arrival. If they looked like any other neighboring tribe to the Aztecs, they would have most likely been attacked, and whipped out. And as it says in the blog, the Spanish’s weapons aren’t so much better than the Aztecs. Even today, if our troops went in with modern weapons, they would still pose a threat. Primitive weapons still kill.
The key to the Spanish’s conquest was that they were able to get close enough to Montezuma.

If the Aztecs won out against the Spanish, that somehow the Spanish came, then never came back, that Smallpox didn’t wipe out the Aztecs. The Aztecs would continue to rise. They would soon discover greater weapons, and better battle strategies. The Americas would probably be all, or mostly Aztec. If the Europeans do try to take North and South America then, it would be much harder, and longer for the Europeans to take.

Though the Aztecs, in my opinion would not surpass the Europeans. Since the Europeans had a head start. And have neighboring countries to keep them fresh. The Aztecs would gain great knowledge as they spread, but I think they will never pass the Europeans.

To be continued...(maybe?)

~Tony SU

Anonymous said...

This is interesting.
It describes things in great detail.The spanish had weapons that were better then all the other weapons.If the aztecs would have won, mexico today wouldn`t be the same.Its crazy to think that by one small change or one small diffrence in the way things were, so many things could have changed and been diffrent in so many ways.
i enjoyed this article but it was a big hard to read.

-Paula

Anonymous said...

This is very interesting, I sometimes sit and wonder what would happen if the aztecs could defeat all the spainish soldiers that came to get gold from them. The Aztecs could have held tehm off if there weapons were more advanced they would have much more advanced weapons almost equal to the spanis one. If the spanish did not have steal weapons that could kill someone with a stab or a slash these weapons helped the spainish peoiple a lot. the spanish also had the musket which scared the aztecs and killed them in one hit. Im glad the spain could capture tenochitlan

Anonymous said...

Tbis was a very good post to read. I thought that it had alot of intricate and complex meaning in it. If the Aztecs won then i think Mexico would be a different place. I thgink there would be a big and different change in Mexicos worldviews. I really like the post but I also thought that it was A bit hard to read and understand everything and put it together.

Brooke L.

Anonymous said...

It wasn't fair the Spanish had more than the Aztecs.The Spanish gave the Aztecs small pox, measles and other diseases that kill alot of the Aztecs.When the Spanish and the Aztecs had a battle, the Spanish took out weapons that the Aztecs had no idea what it was. For example, the Spanish rode horses that the Aztecs thought they were deers. The Spanish also had more advanced weapons than the Aztecs so they wre more powerful at the battle feilds. If the Aztec religion was more powerful than Catholicisim then maybe people would chnage how they looked at the world.Next time, the Aztecs would probably be more prepared when the Spanish comes.-Porscha l

Anonymous said...

I dont agree with this blog beacuse it does'nt say much about what life would be like if the Aztects were not defeted, it is only a review of what happend. I think what it would be like today if the Aztects were not defeted is the Aztects would be spred out around the world and they would have rules of no self sacrifice and if you do, you haveto say it in secret. I think no one would be happy with the Aztects being alive beacuse of there gross religion and culture. i also think that the Aztects would be defeted later on in history if the spanish didnt, beacuse no one would like them.

-elizabeth o

Anonymous said...

- Above is sean.J

Anonymous said...

banana pants

Anonymous said...

i think it would be weird that they might still sacrafice present today. And they could have a big religion like than catholicism

-kyle h

Anonymous said...

der.................hehehehe

Anonymous said...

anus bucket

Anonymous said...

stan darsh

Anonymous said...

This is a very interesting blog. I think that if the Aztecs fended off the spanish during their first visit there would be a more Mexican/ South Americans in modern day North America. People in Mexico wouldn't speak Spanish. But I believe Spain would have returned to the Aztec empire and won the second time around because the smallpox epedemic would have wiped out more of the population.
The Spanish's stronger weapons also contributed to Spain conquering the Aztecs. Horses and guns were much stronger than the Aztecs spears and war clubs. Spain also had amuch better battle strategy.


i wrote this not z zdawg

Anonymous said...

pizza and french fries

Anonymous said...

This is ineresting blog.Not as intresting and usefull as mr. shumack's lessons, but it is still interesting. As i read on it sounds a bit like what we have been takling about in social class.
I find this topic fun and exciting to learn about. It makes me use my brain and challenge my self to develop my social studies skills.

-------------*Chad M*--------------

Anonymous said...

I think that the aztecs should have defeated the spanish because they were a very advanced society. I think that if the aztecs had beat the spanish then our society would be more advanced then it is today.
kyle loves martina

- Chris b.

Anonymous said...

If the Aztecs had won their religion would probaly expand and they would still sacrafice people and it might be the same as being catholic. The government would be different and the might have taken over more land.

Koelton

Anonymous said...

This is Cory M. signing in to say wow! That was a really interesting blog. I like how it points out that if Hernan Cortes would have been brown skin if they would have attacked right away thinking that it was just an opposing tribe?

-- Cory M.
Level 20 witchmaster

Anonymous said...

I think that this blog is very intresting because it talks about how the aztecs had more people and their weapons were harder to use but the spanish had not as good weapons but they were also easier to use. i aslo think that the aztecs had beat the spanish our world would be much diffrent today because we would only count to 20 and there would probably be no spanish in the world because they all got wiped out.

- Derian.C

Anonymous said...

This article was informative and interesting. I think that the geography of Tenochitlan played a huge role in the conquest of the Aztecs.

Although thier civilization was built on a remote island, they had bridges from tha mainland that the Spanish bombarded.

The temples in Tenochitlan could have helped the Aztecs to keep away from the Spanish. It could have been a secret hidding spot for them.

I think that if the Aztecs used their geography to their advantage that they could have had a better chance against the Spanish.

-Anika B.

Anonymous said...

This is a great blog. Seems like you know your facts. If you think about it, if the Spanish didn't beat the Atzecs, what do you think would happen? It's something intresting to think about. I think that people would not engage their life with God. This is something we have to realize. These things happened for a reason. I think without this happening we wouldnt even know anything about God we wouldn't learn that there was anything known as "God." But this is not true at all we think that God and Jesus are real. We know that they will come back down some day and take away all that sinned and forgive them. They will come and save our souls. We relate to the Spanish in this way. -Carmen S

Anonymous said...

Brodie shark tooth

Anonymous said...

Ithink if the aztecs wone the war then north and south america would have better tecnologies and a stronger military against everyone else. We could have a stronger econamy if they cept the markets the same because we would be needing to go there everyday.
But a down side is that they could still be doing human sacrifice and and kill the whole population of the area.

Mitchell,W

Anonymous said...

i dont chris
but i like tacos and burritos

Anonymous said...

]-[ ][ ]v[

Anonymous said...

If the Spanish weren't to conquer the Aztecs, New Mexico would be much different than it is today. New Mexico might of been as developed in technology as Dubai.
Their advances in altering their geography could have made them one of the most prospering and high tech civilizations today.

- Jay C

Anonymous said...

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im a level 19 zombiewarrior

Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

tortillas are higher prices now

that sucks

Anonymous said...

FAGS

Anonymous said...

I think this article is very interesting. If the Aztects would of defeated Spain, things in Mexico and around the world today would probably be very different. Religion might not of been the same as it is now, there might of been different looking buildings, and ideas. They would probably be a very strong group if they were still around.
I wonder if there would be any Aztects left, even if they defeated Spain, because of their sacrifices. They may of wiped their whole colony out overtime, by all the sacrafices. Today, their may have been different religions. The Aztects were a very smart group of people, and if they were around today, they would be very powerfull.
If they did defeat Spain, there may not of been as many Catholics in the world today, but instead there may have been the Aztec religion,

-Melanie.H =)

Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

This is a awesome blog, I can see you know a lot about " If The Aztecs beat the Spanish ". If the Aztecs did beat the Spanish, then Tenochtitlan wouldn't be destoryed and it's population would be much higher. Also their land would be much prettier because there wouldnt be bodies laying around and it would be taken good care of. Tenochtitlan would be such a bigger city and the Aztecs would spread their culture and that it would create a better and bigger religion. Wouldn't you think it would suck with no Mexico?? Im glad the Spanish beat the Aztecs.

- Kelsey.F

Anonymous said...

I think this is interesting as well. The questions asked in the blg were good.
"what if Cortez had manifestly not been an Aztec God, and what if he had darker hair and eyes?"
This whole story would be changed.
If Cortez would of looked different the aztecs would of treated him differently. They would of not let him lead the army, and they would never treat him like a God. So the whole war could of had a different out come.

Danielle L :DD ---> double chin

Anonymous said...

Well, i think that this artical was very interesting, very long but very informative. The spanish had alot of powerful weapons that the aztec had never seen before, and they were most likley afraid.

I think that the Aztecs could have used the geography to their advantage against the Spanish, and if they did they could have won. I think that if they did the world be difrent.

-Cathie H.

Anonymous said...

BACON

Anonymous said...

I thought that was a really intresting blog.The Aztecs had a 300 to 1 advantage, just the technology in weapons made them suffer.If the Aztecs were stronger in the defence catagory they would have won against the Spainish. If the Spanish would not have won the battle, Mexico would have a different worldview, cultures, language.

The disease wiped out a lot of the Aztec's, which the Spanish brought to their clean environment.

-Morgan S.
April 15,2008

Anonymous said...

( o ) ( o )
^.^
BEWBES

Anonymous said...

Bryan smells like cat piss !!

Anonymous said...

rice is at a higher price too.
ugh

Anonymous said...

If the Aztecs had their own infectious disease, or were immune to the European diseases, the outcome of the war would have been much different. The aztecs would have studied the Spainish weapons of war. Also they would have been able to breed some of the surviving horses. With their own beasts of burded, the Aztec's growth, and technology would have been greatly accelerated. The Aztecs would learn how to make large ships, and would learn how to craft steel into weapons. With these new advantages the Aztecs would have had a much better chance at fighting the Spanish. In conclusion, the Aztec's bloodthirsty gods, and European's greater population, technology, and developement, would have been the fate of the Aztecs.

-Caleb S.

Anonymous said...

I think that the Aztecs were screwed from the start. Even if they did win against the Spanish. Their population would be ravaged by disease. They would still have to battle other tribes to find sacrifices for their religion. And sooner or later the Spanish would realize there was a huge civiliztion with tons of gold sitting in the middle of Mexico.
Soon small force of conquistadors would become a large army of Spanish soldiers. The Aztecs would either be destroyed or converted.


Jesse H.

Anonymous said...

sheklerrrrrrrr

Anonymous said...

kyle has a pig nose

Anonymous said...

Wow that was really good, what if the Aztecs did win?, would the world be totally diffrent, i think you did a good job at pointing out alot of the "what if" questions. If the Aztecs did had ammunity to the diseases, and survived and killed all the Spanish. Would the Aztecs keep on sacrificing till they were all wiped out? Anyway that was really good

//kate.H\\

Anonymous said...

If the Aztecs had beat the Spanish in war and the Aztecs were still in control of Mexico I think there would not be as many buildings and towers as there are now or maybe they would of just killed all the aztecs by how much self sacrafice they did. I also think it would be really weird if the Aztecs were still in power of Mexico because there would probably be war between the U.S and the aztecs because the U.S would probably want to really be in power of Mexico.
- JP G

Anonymous said...

mommamiaa.

Anonymous said...

i believe that if a war based nation like the aztec defeated the spanish they will learn from the european weapond like guns and steal, they will become a nation stronger than any other nation in the world they might invade europe looking for human sacifice we might be live under the rule of a natzi like nation but even worse tacos might never be invented (willard - no beef)

Anonymous said...

ReTArds

Anonymous said...

wat is a tortilla fest?

Anonymous said...

This was an interesting blog.
If the Aztecs had won the country of Mexico would be very different.

-Martina.S

Anonymous said...

jay is a criple

Anonymous said...

EGGPLANT I LIKE TO EAT

Anonymous said...

I dont no chesits

Anonymous said...

\/
..
UU

Anonymous said...

()_()
(._.)
() ()

Anonymous said...

KYLE + MARTINA = <3

Anonymous said...

green eggs and ham :)

Anonymous said...

i like elephents

Anonymous said...

For me the Aztecs were very simple people. They had a strong military stradigie, they were really religious and would do anything for their Gods.

During the war between the Spanish and Aztecs, the Aztecs outnumbered the Spanish but even though the smallpox, measles and other diseases killed alot of the Aztecs, and if that hadn't happened the Aztecs may of had a chance.

Anonymous said...

mr.Flieger likes little boys

Anonymous said...

The Aztecs had quite a strong military and strategic standpoint during the time when the Spanish took over Tenochititlan. Even though, as you said, the Aztecs outnumbered the Spanish. The Spanish, even with their indigenous allies that they gathered from their journey to the Aztec capital, along with their superior weapons, still wouldn't stand a chance against the Aztecs.

If the Aztecs had stayed on the defensive side and blocked out the Europeans in the first place, who knows what would have happened...

Along with the Spanish diseases, maybe the Aztecs would have eventually been exterminated if not by the diseases, but maybe by the other surrounding tribes, who could see an oppurtunity to finally defeat their oppressors...

But IF the Aztecs had survived, maybe while the rest of North America was being conquered, modern Mexico might have ended up as a fairly simple, even "barbaric" place. The Aztec empire may have expanded, even North into modern day U.S.A. Who knows?

Great blog!

Curtis W.

Anonymous said...

For me the Aztecs were very simple people. They had a strong military stradigie, they were really religious and would do anything for their Gods.

During the war between the Spanish and Aztecs, the Aztecs outnumbered the Spanish but even though the smallpox, measles and other diseases killed alot of the Aztecs, and if that hadn't happened the Aztecs may of had a chance.

-Bryan P.

Phil said...

I think this is an informed and well thought out mental exercise you are positing but I would like to make a few observations:

1. The Aztecs may have had none of these prophecies or warnings regarding men with "beards and blue eyes" and it is unlikely Cortes was confused with Quetzylcotl because the date of his return fell at the end of an Aktun/Long Count era that has already come several years previous. Moctezuma may have simply been inept and overly cautious.
2. Cortez returned with the navy sent to arrest him! If he hadn't been alive to convince them into immediate action, would Spanish colonization simply been delayed a decade or so when disease had done most of the work for them? Or perhaps he did return with reinforcements and they were overwhelmed by shear numbers?
3. Weaponry: Cortez had ten cannons, 20 horses and an undetermined amount of powder weapons. In the event of victory over the Spanish, half the horses had already died and if any more could have been bred, the Aztecs may have used them for food or sacrifice. The replication of black powder weapons requires a knowledge of minerals and ores that they had only dabbled in with jewelry. They definitely understood projectiles, but not the gunpowder that propelled them in Spanish guns.

Metal swords would have been the only likely technology that they would adopt out of this clash. Couple that with a lucky grasp of horses and horsemanship, as well as the superior knowledge of the forests and the Aztec warrior mentality...
...they would have still died off by 90% and the remainder would have probably been absorbed into a nearby nation. As populations dipped, dominant powers would shift, allegiances would crumble and the Aztecs would cease to exist, again.
Tribes not affected by the disease would shun those areas that were.
Those furthest from the event (Mayans, Incas, North Americas) may actually be the ones who could benefit from the new technology, but over the course of a few generations and only if the continued contact with Europeans didn't eradicate them through disease, as history shows it nearly did, again, and again.
It is interesting to note that the Aztecs were far superior in hygiene as well, taking a bath a day, brushing teeth, sterilizing wounds and cuts and using perfumed oils. And yet this still did not save them from epidemic.

Perhaps it was just disease that chose the destiny of all the Native Americans, from Alaska, to Yucatan, to Chile and Argentina.

Well, at least disease and a deep European need to rape, pillage, and convert.

Anonymous said...

who knows what could have been.

most likely, i believe the Mexica would have stopped the sacrifice once they realized it was not giving them brownie points with their god.

The people of the Americas may not have been "civilized" to the Europeans, but they were not stupid.
Just look at the Mayan Empire.

Anonymous said...

who knows what could have been.

most likely, i believe the Mexica would have stopped the sacrifice once they realized it was not giving them brownie points with their god.

The people of the Americas may not have been "civilized" to the Europeans, but they were not stupid.
Just look at the Mayan Empire.

Paco said...

I'm writing a novel where the Aztecs took over Spain in the 1490s, at the same times as in actual history the Conquista happened in Spain and my novel is set in a 21st century Spain controlled by the Aztecs. They would have made a lot of technological progress, but different progress. They are also no strangers to foreign technology in my novel, and have electricity, plastic, computers etc.

Anonymous said...

Check this out!!! http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Aztec_Empire